Carola Frisch

[00:00:00] Roy Notowitz: Hello and welcome to How I Hire. I'm your host. Roy Notowitz, Founder of an executive recruiting and leadership consulting firm called Noto Group, where my team and I have spent the last decade helping to build iconic consumer brands, one hire at a time. You can visit us at NotoGroup.com. Please look for us on your favorite listening platform and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

I'm excited to welcome Carola Frisch to the show today. Carola and I met through our work at Nike over 20 years ago. I was a recruiter in the Apparel Division at the Nike Headquarters in Beaverton and my counterpart in Europe, Lauri Kriva, introduced us. At the time, the Nike brand was gaining global dominance and hiring like crazy. Carola was a trusted external search partner for some of the most important roles that we were recruiting for at the time. 

Based in London, Carola's firm, Frisch Associates, works with iconic consumer lifestyle brands in high growth and transformational stages, delivering not only executive search, but also leadership consulting services as well.

Over the years, our teams have collaborated on numerous projects and most importantly, we maintain a connection on a quarterly basis to keep tabs on the pulse of the talent market, economy, and industry trends. And lately Carola has been talking a lot about this Modern Leadership concept in our touch base calls. And I thought it'd be really cool to get her on here to talk about it. It's a way of leading that she articulates through her significant experience working with leading brands as they prioritize purpose and culture to stay relevant with consumers, employees, investors, and partners. 

Carola. It's a great honor to have you as a guest. Welcome to the podcast and I'm excited to have this conversation today. 

[00:01:53] Carola Frisch: Well, thank you, Roy. I'm a big fan of your podcast. So I'm really excited about actually being a guest today. Also I deeply value our partnership and your support over the years. You always inspire me on how to do our job really well. 

[00:02:06] Roy Notowitz: You as well, it's been great. I'm glad we've always maintained our quarterly touch base. I think it's been a strategic advantage, just being able to know what's happening, how things are going in Europe, especially. I'm interested in, just for the audience, if you could start by telling us your background, your experience, and a little bit about your business, so that we can have some context for that going into this conversation because it's extensive.

[00:02:29] Carola Frisch: Well, as you said, my career in executive search spans more than two decades. I grew up in Germany and then ended up in London, initially working for a large international search firm. And then for a specialist boutique firm before I started out independently in the late 1990s. Nike was one of my first clients.

And I had an incredible journey working with the business in a time when Nike doubled global revenues twice, I placed about more than 50 leaders. Uh, many had a successful and progressive career with the brand internationally and most enjoyed a 10 year or 10, 15 plus years. And some even maybe beyond the 20 years -

[00:03:11] Roy Notowitz: Still there.

[00:03:12] Carola Frisch: Yeah. So working with Nike really helped me consolidate my focus on working with iconic consumer lifestyle brands when they are in high growth and transformation. It also taught me how to find and place leaders who meet the leadership and culture add requirements of one of the most successful and admired organizations in the world.

And then over the years, my team and I have worked with many category leading brands, including Starbucks or the North Face and Vans or Under Armour. And most recently, also, the digital disruptors such as Gymshark, which has just landed in the US. So in total, we have delivered over 400 successful placements.

[00:03:50] Roy Notowitz: That's amazing. And so you've also done work in media, too. I remember you had some of the media and entertainment clients as well. 

[00:03:57] Carola Frisch: That's right. Yes. At the beginning, we worked for organizations such as Viacom or Sony Pictures, Columbia TriStar Studio. And those were really exciting times. And in a way, you know, media and entertainment and consumer brands, they're not that different.

[00:04:13] Roy Notowitz: So what trends are you seeing in executive search right now? 

[00:04:17] Carola Frisch: Well, there are many. So in the last decades, you know, there has really been a shift away from the deep sector specialist search consultants, say in beauty or packaged goods, FMCG, or media and entertainment, as companies really need to find leadership skills and expertise that doesn't exist in their organization, technology and digital evolution, but also business change in general has led to organizations needing to recruit leaders from outside their own sector.

And I also see a growing recognition amongst hiring executives, but also talent professionals in organizations that the strong or almost exclusively focused on the "find" element of a search is limiting and not where the value of a search firm truly lies. I don't know whether you're seeing that trend as well.

[00:05:06] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the premise for starting this firm over a decade ago was around adding more value than just the search piece. It's more like search selection and integration. 

[00:05:17] Carola Frisch: Because increasingly our professional expertise and wisdom; the insights we collect by talking to hundreds of leaders and understanding the changing leadership context or our market intimacy, our reach or our independence, and in the role that we have as advisors to both clients and candidates is seen as an important part of delivering the leadership hires the company's needs. 

[00:05:42] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Right now is a really interesting time too. And I know we've talked about this just with COVID and the changing dynamics of people working remotely and companies shifting towards the digital-first strategies and just a lot of churn within organizations. I don't know if in Europe, right now, compared to the US, I'm interested in your perspective on how things are evolving over there and what the vibe is compared to here. I know you've got sort of a pulse on both. 

[00:06:10] Carola Frisch: I think that we are in a time where the field a search takes place in has gotten really complex and large. And the hiring industry reacts to the growing need for better hires faster with creating larger funnels. So, you know, more fish in the pond and the larger net increases the chances of success. Right?

And then on top of that, technologies at hand offering large platforms in virtual networks, as well as automated application and assessment tools. And it's confusing. You know, also a growing number of senior leadership positions are posted online. Job postings get a lot of applicants because applying is made easy and you know, the jobs are marketed strongly, but the statistics show that only 2% of applicants receive offers. 2%.

So the reality is that casting the large net wide leads to inefficiency and higher recruitment costs, and protracted hiring processes because it just takes so much longer to feel through it all. 

[00:07:09] Roy Notowitz: That's why companies are calling us to help.

[00:07:13] Carola Frisch: Yeah. Really what's different today, and what we need to be able to work with is those large, flowing talent pools, the shift in the domain and leadership skills and mindset that our clients need.

Then there is also increased virtual executive networking and leadership development. So it's not just a pandemic where everything went virtual. A lot of it will remain, and we really need to understand these networks to find the right people, whether that's through podcasting or whether that is, you know, through a WhatsApp group where leaders in a specific field really congregate and exchange point of views.

And also, I don't know whether you see that Roy, now emotional and values based criteria matter as much as opportunities to apply and build competence to the top candidates.

[00:08:04] Roy Notowitz: We call that the "good company effect." So great culture, meaningful career opportunities and authentic leadership and a connection to purpose or mission is definitely something that candidates and people who are in the workforce care about now. 

[00:08:18] Carola Frisch: Absolutely. And therefore the communication around an opportunity needs to align to that and then briefs need to be coded differently. And also candidate profiles need to be decoded in the right way. So it's kind of changing and shifting all the time. 

[00:08:34] Roy Notowitz: So what's the business climate right now and talent market like in Europe? And how would you compare that to the US? 

[00:08:42] Carola Frisch: Uncertainty continues to worry most business leaders and consumers. In the pandemic, European governments have taken the approach to supporting businesses so they can then take care of their people whilst in the US, government support has been channeled more directly to the people.

So your consumer confidence and economic rebound is much stronger and it's happening much sooner. And here in Europe, we're still waiting to see how many businesses will not make it and how many people will lose their jobs as those furloughs and business support programs come to an end. And, you know, we're also told to expect rising cost of living expenses as, you know, wholesale and material prices increase. But I think that's a global thing.

[00:09:24] Roy Notowitz: That's happening here too. Yeah. 

[00:09:26] Carola Frisch: And yes, you know, for sure the businesses that have been thriving in the pandemic, especially brands who operate predominantly in the digital DTC. Or the wellness, the sports, outdoor bike brands. They've seen an incredible surge in sales. 

[00:09:39] Roy Notowitz: A lot of our clients, thankfully. Yeah. 

[00:09:41] Carola Frisch: That's right. We share some of those don't we? And the creative planning lead of one of the top advertising agencies here in London told me recently that food is the new rock & roll. So, especially when it comes to the younger generations and apparently food's the biggest category on TikTok. 

[00:09:58] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:09:59] Carola Frisch: And then we see, you know, luxury goods companies in Europe, like Prada and LVMH, they are reporting incredibly positive results. And we're also seeing a similar surge in lifestyle and sporting goods. The results reported recently by Crocs or Nike. Revenues in the US or North America are sharply up followed by Asia.

And here in Europe, it's only gradually recovering, however, at large the soaring revenues are just getting businesses back to pre pandemic levels and how it will play out in the long run, we'll have to see, we'll just have to live with the pandemic for a while, I guess. 

[00:10:36] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. It's been really interesting too, the virtual hiring. And companies making those decisions without meeting candidates, especially with things potentially coming back a little bit with the variant, I think, and making decisions around when people come back to the office. I think a lot of that's been pushed out a little bit. So it'll be interesting to see. 

So what changes are you seeing in the way that CEOs, boards, investors and executives think about leadership? I mean, that's kind of the reason why we thought it'd be great to have you on the podcast. 

[00:11:05] Carola Frisch: It's a big question. It seems that there are not many aspects that are not changing right now. The key focus continues to be on business leadership. You know, what drives strategic growth and what creates business value? Consumer centricity is very much at the center. Leaders must be able to create a value proposition that is relevant to and engages the consumer. And businesses need to use the whole gambit of tools that connect them with the consumer, from data and insights to compelling content and communication. And they need to be where a consumer is shopping.

So omni-channel capability is really key right now, but design thinking is becoming a strong, strategic advantage as it identifies consumers' problems and needs, and then aligns the organization to deliver new products and services and new business models that create a highly differentiated brand experience.

[00:11:56] Roy Notowitz: Yeah, everything's so connected now. 

[00:11:58] Carola Frisch: Yes. And everything is always around the consumer that consumer centricity pops up all the time. And then so analytical, strategic thinking is still essential capabilities. But then businesses are not always looking for the gamechangers. They also need leaders who can create growth and build value incrementally, bringing an organization, an existing business along.

Building tech and digital capability will remain a key leadership topic for years to come. Years of experience matter less in the digital age. I don't know whether you're seeing that. And in fact, they can even be a hindrance to growth and transformation. 

[00:12:34] Roy Notowitz: Especially with the digital marketing and e-commerce roles, we've seen that as a trend, although we've been doing some, uh, DEI research and learning journeys over here, studying or looking at ageism in the hiring process. And one of the things we learned is there's no correlation between innovation and age. So just because somebody is more experienced doesn't mean they aren't as innovative.

So that was an interesting thing that we discovered as well. And a lot of times I think people are looking for that younger generation because they feel like that digital native experience or that innovation element is more prevalent, but it's not necessarily a hundred percent true for everyone. 

[00:13:15] Carola Frisch: Right. Yes. And then that kind of plays into the conversation that is going on now around career decline and how executives can manage that. Apparently it starts in your early to mid forties, but if people are aware of it, really understand how they can bring their best to an organization in a less rigid way as we've seen in past structures, it's really exciting to see that. 

[00:13:41] Roy Notowitz: We've talked about learning agility, you know, that competency and adaptability, and I think more than ever, that's one of the biggest elements, no matter what level or stage of career that you're in.

[00:13:51] Carola Frisch: Yeah. 

[00:13:52] Roy Notowitz: And so that led to your research right? In your project?

[00:13:55] Carola Frisch: Exactly. Because what we're seeing is a shift in leadership skills and mindsets towards human values based leadership. This was happening already well before the pandemic, as organizations understood they need to meet the expectations of consumers or employees, investors, stakeholders when it comes to climate change and sustainability or social change and social justice. So because of accelerating and disruptive change, businesses need leaders who can foster agility, resilience, inspire lifelong learning, as you say. And so, as you said, I've spent the last two years on a research project called Modern Leadership.

[00:14:33] Roy Notowitz: So can you define the concept of Modern Leadership? And how does that influence your work? 

[00:14:38] Carola Frisch: Yeah, I mean, Modern Leadership is essentially, it's the inflection point of established and trusted leadership skills. You know, for example, strategy, creating an organization that has capability to execute, drive the strategy and measuring performance and progress with hard KPIs.

And then on the other hand, what's coming in, is that human values based leadership mindset and those behaviors that make or keep businesses relevant for the consumer and investors and the stakeholders. So we are seeing a global shift to redefine success in business as the pursuit of profits is balanced with the social, environmental commitments of organizations.

And as a result, the leadership standard is emerging. So we've started with a short survey where we surveyed about a hundred VP and C-level leaders on what their leadership priorities are specifically now, industry and 98% said that Modern Leadership skills and mindset are critical for the future success and performance of their business.

And over 80% have named ED and I as the most important capability or discipline. So the Modern Leadership initiative has taught us what leadership skills and mindsets will make businesses future ready, and it has equipped us to help our clients and candidates to define and assess how these human values and behaviors are delivering measurable business success.

[00:16:11] Roy Notowitz: So taking into consideration those results of that survey you did, how have the business and workforce dynamics shifted as a result of COVID and just the shift in general, in business, towards these things? And what opportunities does that present for growth oriented consumer brands as they compete in this more dynamic talent marketplace, where there's lots more movement and activity and options for talent? 

[00:16:40] Carola Frisch: We've got to COVID, we've all learned that we do not need to be in the office or onsite to do our work. And we've grown to appreciate the benefits of remote working. However, people will always be missing the social interactions, the nonverbal communications of working with others and physical environment. Technology has been an enabler, but it cannot facilitate the learning and development that happens when we are around people. And when we can observe and interact with other functions and departments. 

So it's all interconnected, isn't it? The sort of purpose driven business leadership. It inspires consumers. It impacts their buying decisions and their loyalty and their engagement, but equally it really inspires employees. And we’ve seen a shift in different mindsets from the baby boomers to the millennials, people expect, need and want different things now. They want to really work with a business where there is a purpose where they can make an impact above and beyond just doing the things that get them to the next promotion. 

[00:17:46] Roy Notowitz: Assuming a company does have that strong connection to purpose or mission, whether it's for a consumer brand, a connection to regenerative agriculture or sustainable footwear or apparel or whatever the case might be, and they have been able to articulate their mission and purpose and attract good candidates, why do companies still sometimes struggle with selecting capable leaders? 

[00:18:08] Carola Frisch: Right. I'm seeing that business growth and transformation strategies are often poorly or not at all reflected in the leadership profile and hiring efforts. It often goes to, oh, so where's that job description of the CMO? You know, and it gets pulled out of a drawer, and it's almost like, you know, let's go back five years. Data and insights on changing business challenges and external business and leadership context are not recognized or included and often hiring decision-makers and candidates are flying blind on what really matters in the role.

And I also see this trend of new titles and types of roles that promise quick solutions for staying current and competitive. So appointments of chief transformation officers, or chief digital or ED and I officers, it creates focus and attention on a specific capability, but they're often short-lived because of desired or required capabilities, it's been in a silo and the rest of the organization is continuing to operate in the old ways. 

[00:19:14] Roy Notowitz: We saw that with sustainability early on where now of course it's in part of everybody's job description to some degree, especially in product creation and other areas of the supply chain. So is it that leaders aren't just spending enough time thinking about that context, thinking about the role and what they really need the person to accomplish? Why is it difficult to create a success profile? 

[00:19:36] Carola Frisch: I think it's that process of what we touched on a bit earlier, the consultative process we bring to the table and our two businesses, they work in very much the same way where we start out and we put the business of the client at the center of a search and we understand their culture, their strategy, and their aspirations..

And then we bring our expertise and insights, our understanding from the markets and the leadership context of today to the table. And then for example, consumer centricity, again, digital communication and training but also digital sourcing and operational capabilities. They are sort of capabilities that consumer and lifestyle brands need right now.

And we need to know what brands and teams and executives are really building and deploying these capabilities. And once you've got this full picture, we build the scorecard. We build a scorecard for every search, and then that informs it. And then we have our process that zones into what we call collaborative strategic and tactical hiring, where we make sure that the hiring decision makers have all the insights and data that they need to hire the best leader for the role and ongoingly, we deliver insights and data from the field. You know, whether it's executive sentiment or competitor actions and marketplace dynamics that really help calibrate the profile and inform the client's strategic and tactical hiring approach.

[00:21:09] Roy Notowitz: That's kind of what you just described as how you integrate the concept of Modern Leadership when you're helping clients think through their hiring strategy and their goals for their business and their evolving culture. And so what other things should companies or talent acquisition folks be thinking about as it relates to that scorecard or as they're thinking through or talking to candidates in that search process?

[00:21:32] Carola Frisch: Yes, it's all around making sure that the strategy is really clear because then that forms the mission for the company, but also the mission for the executive who is being hired. And that mission engages people much more than any sort of generic job description. And the other thing where our firms differentiate themselves is we have an accelerated find and engagement approach.

So our maxims here, are you know, be precise in your messaging, be fast in finding and engaging potential candidates and don't model ID identification find with outreach and engagement. And then that is wrapped up in an agile team process where, you know, we have expertise in identifying the digital platforms and the hotspots where target candidates go and network.

And we work with tech powered candidate outreach and engagement. But we have also aligned how we sort or code and tap into the people in our network, to the skills and experience and the mindset that define transformational leaders. And that's really that combination of Modern Leadership, the new skills and mindsets that are coming through or interplay, but also don't forget what works and you know, it's not about throwing out the old and bringing in the new.

[00:22:53] Roy Notowitz: I think that speed element is something that's really important to call out. And that doesn't mean you're less thorough, but I think just with virtual interviewing becoming so mainstream and with so much noise and competition within the market, and we're seeing the shelf life of candidates really shortened and companies that maintain that quick pace, but not quick without being detailed and thoughtful and strategic.

They're going to have such an advantage, especially if they're proactive in building their talent pools. Um, so I think that those are things that are going to be key moving forward. And I think that's here to stay even after people start going back to the normal interviewing post COVID. 

So let's talk a little bit about diversity. We're realizing that that's really the key for innovation and staying relevant and just to unlocking better performance within organizations. Your team and my team have been working hard to incorporate these strategies, to pull different candidate profiles into the mix. What approaches have you developed to identify and engage and support these goals within your client base? And then also, how do you mitigate bias in the hiring process? And then how does Modern Leadership support or foster DEI efforts? That's a lot of questions. 

[00:24:11] Carola Frisch: It's a lot of questions. 

[00:24:12] Roy Notowitz: But I think it sort of goes together. 

[00:24:13] Carola Frisch: Well, I think we share this Roy. And when we're passionate about delivering diverse and balanced short lists, and we promote diversity and equality and leadership teams and our firms have a very strong track record in delivering diverse leadership placements.

We champion diversity and inclusion through Modern Leadership, but also we're very tactical. We show candidates the diverse makeup of the teams that they would be part of. We guarantee careful and clear communications so that there is no inference that there may be an intention to advantage or disadvantage any group or person.

And then we make every effort to explain the search criteria. So really that candidates who are diverse candidates understand it's all about skills and experience and ability required. And we make sure that all candidates have a really positive experience and are reassured of our client's commitments as well.

And how can we eliminate bias? I think it's more around show don't tell. And really our networking community is highly diverse across culture and socioeconomic backgrounds, nationality, and gender. And it's really mixed. And we stay connected and nurture our network through active immersion and engagement and continuous learning and training. This is really one of the superpowers of brands now, to build diverse teams.

[00:25:38] Roy Notowitz: We've been doing this educational process internally, but also with client engagements on the front end, where we'll talk about the psychology of bias and what we're doing to make sure that we're considering all kinds of diversity, not just BIPOC candidates, but somebody who has a disability or things that you might not see visually, or maybe just even a different type of company or industry experience, like what you had talked about earlier, all bring unique and different perspectives and diversity. 

I think what I'm seeing, which is really fantastic, is clients are much more open to talking to a wider variety of candidates with different experiences, even if they don't check every single box because they know, gosh, that'll really balance out my team in a different way or bring unique perspective or industry experience, not just the technology aspects that you talked about, but other areas of expertise and leadership as well. 

[00:26:29] Carola Frisch: Yeah, you're right. I agree. Diversity that really lifts an organization goes far beyond the social human aspects. Ultimately it's about creating teams and organizations that bring together you know, different life and professional experiences, different point of views and sensibilities 

[00:26:47] Roy Notowitz: I know we're going way back and dating ourselves, but it's almost like what it was like before LinkedIn, because with LinkedIn, what happened was we started really diving in and being able to find people with eight or ten dimensions, exactly what we needed and what we were looking for and the client was able to check all these boxes.

Before LinkedIn, it was like, oh, this person has good experience in this general area. And we couldn't necessarily find everyone in the whole universe. 750 million people globally, pick out the 10 people with this exact skillset. So now that we have that power, it's great.

But then we're missing out on the other side of that spectrum. So I see the pendulum swinging back a bit into, yeah, technology is great, we can find all these different things, but then we're also just sort of adding sameness to our team versus something different. 

[00:27:33] Carola Frisch: Yeah, good human judgment. Absolutely. 

[00:27:35] Roy Notowitz: So what are the three things about Modern Leadership that hiring executives should take action on as they think about future hiring? 

[00:27:45] Carola Frisch: Great question. I would say one Modern Leadership enhances business performance and value. It's not about altruism. It keeps businesses relevant to consumers, employees, investors, and stakeholders. So I would say find the link of value or behavior that you need in a leader or that you need in your business to how it can have a positive impact on the business.

And then this creates a foundation and it will guide you in first defining what the business needs and what to look for in candidates. So they will be able to inspire and lead the team along those lines. And secondly, I'd say don't be overwhelmed by what first seems to be a fog of characteristics and attributes and values and behaviors.

You don't need them all in a specific leader or in a role, many often rolled into one core value or mindset or behavior for a leader anyway. So if we stay with the example of diversity and inclusion, a product leader needs to be able to build and lead diverse teams because diversity leads to higher creativity and innovation, and that will deliver better and more successful product.

So you need to dig for real evidence on how a candidate thinks and operates in relation to diversity and inclusion. But then on the other hand, diversity may be less of a critical requirement with a commercial leader who works in the matrix where collaboration, resilience, and the ability to drive change are critical leadership values for that role.

And the third point, I would say, let go of any notion that a leader has to have all the answers and that asking questions is a sign of weakness. Lifelong learning and collaboration are the first principles of Modern Leadership and normalizing the dramatic change and disruption that we all face will set you on a path of finding new opportunities in solving problems. And if a leader can inspire a culture of curiosity and trust the team and the organization will help them figure things out. 

[00:29:53] Roy Notowitz: Can you tell us about some of the projects you're working on currently and what types of things you're excited about?

[00:29:58] Carola Frisch: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean, work we're currently doing or have done recently is in digital training and e-commerce, and in marketing leadership roles, what digital content strategies and capabilities drive consumer engagement and connection.

That's been a big theme in the last year or two or creative leadership roles that require expertise in design thinking to create consumer engagement through digital products and services. So it's a really exciting time where organizations are rethinking, you know, not just what skillsets they need, what their strategies are going forward, how they differentiate themselves.

It's also exciting in terms of creating a whole new work environment that structures and enables people to work remotely. And that again, increases diversity. So I think it's a really exciting time to do the work that we do right now. 

[00:30:54] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. That's awesome. And I have to say, too, a lot of search firms compete for work, obviously. Oftentimes, we hit situations where there's a client in Europe or we're at capacity. And you're one of the few colleagues that I can heartfeltly and one hundred percent endorse and recommend to any client. And I know that you've done the same for us and I, I really appreciate that partnership and your support and friendship over the years.

And just even sometimes just talking shop is nice, because you know, not many people really experience the same day-to-day lifestyle or, you know, work lifestyle that we are with all these things that are outside of our control and all the needs that companies have and things like that. So it's just been great to work with you like this over the years. 

[00:31:40] Carola Frisch: Yeah, no, I, I enjoy hugely working with you and your team too, Roy. I think that there is definitely, you know, a lot of common ground in terms of values and ethics and how we go about our work. But also, what we also share is that we are always looking what's next, you know, for our own curiosity and to build our businesses so they stay relevant for our own learning, but also to be there for our client and help them navigate and figure it out. 

[00:32:11] Roy Notowitz: So true. Let's talk a little bit about how people can connect with you. So if somebody is interested in Modern Leadership or working with Frisch Search, how would they reach you?

[00:32:21] Carola Frisch: Via email, which is Carola@modernleadership.net or Carola@frischsearch.com. The two websites correspond with the email addresses. So it's www.modernleadership.net or www.frischsearch.com. For now, Modern Leadership is simply a community or platform where I share the learning and the insights we collect from conversations with leaders or leadership experts through posts and blogs and newsletters. and the podcast. So if you've got any questions, if you would like to talk about something specifically, I'd love to hear from you, please get in touch. 

[00:32:57] Roy Notowitz: And they can sign up for that newsletter, that content through modernleadership.net? 

[00:33:02] Carola Frisch: Yes, there's a sign on the website, but also you can find me on LinkedIn, connect with me there. It will all end up in the same place. 

[00:33:09] Roy Notowitz: And we'll put all these links and emails in the show notes as well. So, um, everyone will have the opportunity to, uh, dig in and take a look. 

[00:33:18] Carola Frisch: That's great. Well, Roy, thank you so much. 

[00:33:21] Roy Notowitz: Really appreciate-- this has been really fun. And obviously I'm going to talk to you probably in a month, just touch base, our regular touch base. 

[00:33:29] Carola Frisch: It might not be that long. So...

[00:33:34] Roy Notowitz: Thanks for tuning in to How I Hire, visit HowIHire.com for more details on the show. How I Hire is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, and all major listening platforms. How I Hire is created by Noto Group Executive Search. To find out more about Noto Group, visit NotoGroup.com and follow us on LinkedIn.

This podcast was produced by AO McClain, LLC. To learn more about their great work visit AOMcClain.com.

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