Hiring and Leadership Trends, Lessons, and Advice

[00:00:00] Roy Notowitz: Hello and welcome to How I Hire, the podcast that taps directly into the best executive hiring advice and insights. I'm Roy Notowitz, founder and CEO of Noto Group Executive Search. You can learn more about us at NotoGroup.com. As a go-to firm for purpose-driven companies, we've been lucky to work with some of the world's most inspiring leaders as they've tackled the challenge of building high performance leadership teams.

[00:00:29] Roy Notowitz: Today I'm back with my team of principal executive search consultants here at Noto Group to discuss key workforce and leadership trends that they've experienced working through 2024, as well as their thoughts about what hiring trends and challenges to anticipate in 2025. Lena Knofler, Sara Spirko and Tami Bumiller join me on the podcast today to share their predictions for the year ahead, as well as actionable advice for leaders, board investors, and CEOs seeking top talent.

[00:01:02] Roy Notowitz: Hey, team, thanks for being here today. It's great to have everyone in the same room and I'm excited to have this conversation.

[00:01:08] Sara Spirko: Yeah, super excited to be here.

[00:01:09] Lena Knofler: Good to see everyone.

[00:01:10] Tami Bumiller: Nice to be here. Roy,

[00:01:12] Roy Notowitz: Starting out, I think it'd be interesting for each of you to introduce yourself and share a few words about your role and what you enjoy most about working with our clients.

[00:01:22] Sara Spirko: My name is Sara Spirko and I've been with Noto Group for coming on six years in January. I'm the managing director, which basically just means beyond recruiting, I am essentially making sure that our service delivery team is delivering for our clients and for our candidates. Over those six years I've worked with a lot of different clients, which means a lot of different business needs, individual personalities and candidates. So solutioning and getting creative to fill roles with great people can be challenging, but it's something that brings me back every day.

[00:01:51] Roy Notowitz: That's awesome.

[00:01:52] Lena Knofler: I'm Lena Knofler, I'm a principal search consultant here at Noto Group, and I've been with the firm for five years now. I love working with our clients because I get to see the products that they make out in the wild every day, and I think it makes the impact of our hires feel more real.

[00:02:10] Tami Bumiller: My name is Tami Bumiller and I've been with Noto Group for five years and operate in the capacity of principal search consultant. What I most enjoy about working with our clients is learning the new businesses of our new clients and helping them solve for the leadership talent gap that initiated our search work.

[00:02:26] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. So just thinking about and reflecting on 2024, what are the factors that made hiring top leaders challenging this past year?

[00:02:37] Sara Spirko: It's been a challenge. You know, the whole relocation/on-site/hybrid conversation that has been forefront is still a really big challenge and it can make recruiting certain roles really challenging actually.

[00:02:48] Sara Spirko: We're seeing companies wanting to draw people back in office, while many candidates are saying, "Hey, I've been doing great work remote for the past three, four years." So there's this tension that sometimes is really hard to break through. People don't want to move and their reasoning makes sense, but we're also seeing that, you know, having that community in person, there's just something that helps that work feel a little bit more deep and meaningful. And I would say the other thing is if a candidate is happy with where they're at, they're less likely to make a jump because they need that security. A lot of really great candidates are just not really in the market.

[00:03:21] Lena Knofler: There's also been a lot of internal changes within organizations structurally that are affecting the hiring landscape. People are restructuring departments. There are a lot more layoffs that are happening as well, that we've noticed, and a lot more candidates are reaching out to our firm saying that they're available and looking for jobs. So on the candidate side, it's just taking a little bit longer, or they're finding that they're one of three or four finalists in a process. It just takes more time and there's a lot more noise for people on the company side to weed through.

[00:03:55] Tami Bumiller: I think the most challenging part this year is the changing landscape of the economy --whether you think it's a great economy, whether you think it's a poor economy, or you're somewhere in between-- has created these sort of starts and stops with our clients where they're going down the path of one particular thing and then maybe we go down the path with them, find that group of candidates, and then mid search, they're like, "wait, we needed something else," or, "we need to stop for a month," or, "we need to change a search entirely." And while that is certainly within the realm of their rights to do, because they know what's best for their business, it does make the search process challenging and it creates a discomfort with our candidate pool that a client that they're fully engaged with is now changing midstream. And that makes communication and kind of trust building with candidates trickier. So it's not undoable, but it's definitely been a challenge in something we haven't seen over the past five years.

[00:04:52] Roy Notowitz: Yeah, and if I look back even further, maybe to some other times in the history of the firm, that dynamic has ebbed and flowed a little bit. What shifts are you seeing in client, company and candidate priorities or needs?

[00:05:08] Sara Spirko: Yeah, I think for 2025, it's the same storyline since 2020. I feel like 2020 is just kind of like that year where everything changed and for some good reasons. So a lot of candidates are really concerned about the culture of a company, probably more so than they were pre Covid, and it's just making sure that where they're working at aligns with their values or it gives them the right work life balance that they're looking for. And a lot of candidates ask those questions and sometimes clients have a hard time articulating that. So that's one thing that I would recommend to clients is like if you're on an interview panel, you need to be able to verbalize what your company stands for, what you're all about, and how that turns into your day-to-day job. So those would be things that I think are front and center and have been for a couple years.

[00:05:51] Lena Knofler: "Where did digital go?" would be my first question.

[00:05:54] Sara Spirko: Yeah.

[00:05:55] Lena Knofler: Back in 2020 and 2021, we were only doing head of e-commerce and head of digital. It was interesting to see in this back half of 2024, we've done more sales positions that are pretty strictly wholesale focused. So I just feel like wholesale and retail are coming back and digital is certainly going to be an important part of the conversation going forward, but it's definitely taken a backseat...

[00:06:20] Sara Spirko: Yeah.

[00:06:20] Lena Knofler: ...a bit more. I think people are focused on foundation and now they're looking to figure out how do we grow in new ways in terms of revenue.

[00:06:29] Tami Bumiller: So I'd just like to make a comment on Sara's commentary about the culture and candidates. So it's kind of an interesting dichotomy that candidates are looking for culture and at the same time they're saying, I want to work from home. And I think that is one of the most complicated things that we're dealing with in, in general, in aggregate, an executive search is CEOs wanting leadership to come back in the office and our passive candidates much more reticent to consider a relocation. So there's a lot of conflict in the market right now around how we work, what we get done. And when businesses are struggling, which we've seen certainly in the outdoor industry, a lot of downturn from the trajectory, crazy trajectory of the pandemic is the very first place it seems like CEOs are going is, "well, my workforce is not here, and so my business is not performing," and I think that is pushing CEOs to make these decisions to bring people back in the office. But we are definitely struggling with that push and pull from a candidate and client standpoint. And then I think the other piece is coming out of the pandemic, there are less resources for our client companies in terms of headcount, and so they are relying or pushing for more generalist skill sets. So rather than dialing into one skillset, they are pushing for that more generalist person who sometimes can be defined as a unicorn. And those are tricky to find, and they're tricky to perform once they get in house because most people are specialized either coming up from product or coming up through sales or coming up through marketing. So we've got a lot of conflicting items that we're dealing with in search that I don't think is going away.

[00:08:10] Sara Spirko: I think to add to the generalist piece too, I think clients are also looking for people who can go low and go high. So they need people who are very hands-on...

[00:08:19] Tami Bumiller: Absolutely.

[00:08:19] Sara Spirko: ...who can go run a report if needed, but they're also sitting at the strategic table looking at that 5 to 10 year view.

[00:08:25] Tami Bumiller: I think the other piece is a strong, strong push for innovation, and I think innovation is one of the places in our collective client companies and industries that we work in that really suffered through the pandemic. I don't know one product person that thinks creating product over Zoom is a great idea. You know, you have to be in a room. There has to be that creative energy, touching and feeling product. And what we are seeing is people return to the marketplace, trade shows, traveling again. So that push for innovation to help drive go-to-market and not just settle for what we already have is really important And I think that product people in particular are feeling very stifled in the remote environments when it comes to that. Can we be creative and innovate something new and different that the marketplace is demanding rather than just rinse and repeat?

[00:09:15] Roy Notowitz: What trends or innovations or driving factors are currently shaping the world of work?

[00:09:21] Sara Spirko: I mean, everyone's talking about AI. It's something that we're talking a lot about and we don't have the answer yet. And so any role, be it sales, be it marketing, be it product, you know, companies want to see that people are staying in the loop with what's happening with AI and can talk about the pitfalls and talk about what the opportunities are in AI.

[00:09:37] Roy Notowitz: Yeah, and I mean, we're just scratching the surface right, as to how it's going to transform the future of work but it's something very interesting that we've been really taking a closer look at. So we talked a little bit about the trends and different types of things companies are focused on, but let's examine a little bit more deeply the changing landscape, and I'm interested in seeing or hearing what new competencies and capabilities are emerging as absolutely essential for leadership as you think about moving into 2025?

[00:10:09] Tami Bumiller: I'm not sure that they're new but what I would say is I feel strongly that our clients consistently look for three things in a leader. First and foremost, do they know how and can they demonstrate that they know how to make money and drive EBITDA? That's the bottom line. Businesses for profit want to know that people know how to make money and understand the process to get there. Two, are they creative and innovative in how they think about going to market in their strategies and their work? Then three, can they lead with integrity? Can they lead with inspiration? And do they have the skills to galvanize this sort of hybrid, remote, intermittent workforce that we have in today's workforce and bring those people along with their vision?

[00:10:55] Tami Bumiller: Really tricky to do even when you're all around the table together. Even more complicated when you're all apart. So those for me are three things that I always focus on when we're talking to candidates and clients, and I don't think those things change. Sometimes they reorder in terms of what people need, but for the most part, those are the three competencies that we're constantly mining talent for throughout the marketplace.

[00:11:18] Lena Knofler: There's been more of a focus on the people aspect. How do we lead people and organizations through tougher times? How do we have tougher conversations? How do we restructure and transform an organization? And it's not just transforming digitally or transforming a whole strategy. It's more how do we restructure and have that conversation in a healthy way? It's also shifted away from diversity, equity and inclusion a little bit more into how do we find somebody who knows our industry or can disrupt the way of thinking through our industry? We need to stabilize now, and how do we do that in the safest and quickest way possible?

[00:11:59] Roy Notowitz:  So are there any variations that you see based on company size or state of the business?

[00:12:05] Tami Bumiller: Yeah, I think it varies by client. So one of my clients that I have right now is really struggling with internal process infrastructure, and they're completely focused on finding someone who has gone into a business and cleaned up chaos, organized chaos. Another client of mine have their processes wired and they really need a partner to come in and take over that process and the day-to-day so that they then in turn can focus on the higher level go-to-market strategies and the future of the brand. So I think that's one of the special things about how we work is every time we kick off a search, we understand from our client what are the specific needs. It's not just about hiring a person or hiring to a job description, but what are you hiring for? What are the gaps that exist and what are the moments that you need solving for one year, three years, five years out? So it's client dependent and that's what makes the work really fun.

[00:12:59] Roy Notowitz: Great. So what is your current and best thinking on how CEOs and boards can get the best results when engaging with a search firm?

[00:13:08] Tami Bumiller: The success of our work is largely dependent on the partnership that we form with our clients and the hiring managers in particular. So for me, the quality of the upfront work we do to really learn the business, become a steward of the business and the brand, and understand what the specific needs are, a clear line of sight to the needs and competencies that are necessary to success in the role, really strong communication throughout the process and actionable feedback from the hiring manager in regards to who we present. What's actionable is: they don't have enough wholesale experience. They didn't actually go in and create anything in their role. They weren't in that job long enough to show me that they created EBITDA results. That's actionable feedback that we can take back as we're looking in the market and mining more talent.

[00:13:55] Tami Bumiller: And then the quality of the internal interview team, we cannot stress enough. So if you are having people in your business interview candidates, they need to remember that the candidate is also interviewing the brand. So, are the interviewers timely? Are they prepared? Have they looked at a resume? Do they have thoughtful questions? Think about how this role or this person will impact you in your role, and ask questions around that. Don't be impersonal, don't be distracted. Just that engagement piece and really being thoughtful about your questions. You can be direct, you can be candid, but if you're asking questions that are off the beat, candidates pick up on that and they know you're not prepared and they know maybe you're not engaged. So it's really important that those people that are interviewing are an extension of the brand and are enthusiastic about the hire.

[00:14:51] Tami Bumiller: So really critical to have a dialed internal process. And by the way, we can help you with that. So it's something that we offer to our clients and we hope they take advantage of because we can really help dial that in for them so that it doesn't put the burden on them to do that. It's one of the things we're good at.

[00:15:07] Tami Bumiller: And then the last thing is really investing in the quality of the candidate experience from the very first call to the very end, and making sure that every part of the process is a positive experience and shows your brand in a way that highlights why this person would want to come work for you. All of these things are little in and of themselves, but when you add it all up it's a really big difference maker when you can dial a process, and we have clients that do it amazingly well, and we have clients that are still developing.

[00:15:41] Roy Notowitz: Do you have any other thoughts about how boards and CEOs can get the best results with engaging search firms?  

[00:15:46] Sara Spirko: I would add that the CEO, the board, the founders, whomever is involved is actually ready to kick off the search before we even go-to-market because the last thing that you want to have is we get candidates in the mix and then all of a sudden there's a misalignment between the hiring manager and or the CEO and or the founders and or the board, because then that just slows the whole process down. I mean, you want to be thoughtful in the, the hiring process, but the faster it goes, the more engaged and excited the candidate's going to be. So one thing that we do push for is we want to make sure that there is internal alignment. To Tami's point earlier, we help facilitate those conversations. because if you're not crystal clear, the candidates are going to see it and it's going to just not be the best process.

[00:16:28] Tami Bumiller: When you overextend your interview process, it starts to get in the candidate's mind about what is going on inside and how are decisions made or not made? And will I be able to be successful in that environment? So by default, the quality of your process determines the perception the candidate has on the quality of your brand.

[00:16:51] Roy Notowitz: So do you feel like it'll be harder or easier to fill executive level roles in 2025?

[00:16:59] Sara Spirko: I think we're going to see some familiar trends from 2024 go over into 2025, at least like the first or second quarters we're running into potentially a new economic vision for the US and I think a lot of companies are just going to be pausing to see what's going to happen. It is always a challenge to find really good people and you add all these other headwinds into it, it still can be done, obviously we're hiring great people into our clients, but I just feel like are we cautiously optimistic for 2025? Absolutely. But I do think that we're still going to have some of these same headwinds, so people need to get ready that it may start off slow. Hopefully it picks up towards the back half of the year. But I don't think we're going to see the normal January boom of like, we're going to go higher a hundred positions because we have new budgets. I think it's going to be a slower start to 2025.

[00:17:46] Roy Notowitz: So what are some tangible ways that companies can better compete for talent in 2025? I know we talked about some of the things around candidate experience and alignment and moving the process along, but is there anything else?

[00:17:59] Tami Bumiller: Yeah, I think some of the things are the same things that we've seen, maybe with a little bit of a different note, but competitive compensation is extremely important right now.

[00:18:09] Tami Bumiller: Equity is of particular interest to candidates looking for an executive role. Candidates want to put skin in the game and they want to have skin in the game. And so to the extent that our client companies can make space for equity components, it's very competitive and it's very compelling.

[00:18:27] Tami Bumiller: Hybrid flexibility and how the executive works is key and the conflict there is, it's expensive and it becomes tricky, but it's really important to most executives, and I haven't heard one executive and the past 24 months say, "I won't travel," but I've heard a lot of them say, "I'm not picking up my family and moving." Whereas pre pandemic people would move all the time, and we really never had to have a hard conversation. So that continues to be a challenge.

[00:18:53] Tami Bumiller: Having money to invest in the new hire's discipline. That's something I've had candidates talk to me about is, "Hey, look, if I go in and I'm responsible for sales in the wholesale channel and developing the strategy for wholesale, is there money to invest in that channel?" That's key. And I've had more candidates ask that question in the last 6 to 12 months than I had prior.

[00:19:15] Tami Bumiller: And then the last thing is, one of the things that I think is getting lost with these remote and hybrid cultures is development and succession planning is getting lost in the marketplace, and I actually have fear for what the next generation of leaders look like because they're not sitting in meetings where they're learning from leaders. We don't have money for development programs. There isn't training so. Investing in leadership development, executive coaching is really key. And look, executive roles are lonely, and if you want people to be productive in how they're developing their skills and their gaps, they have to have someone to talk to. And so putting some time and investment in those priorities is very key for the growth of a brand, but also for that incredibly important piece, which is when Joe or Sue or Bob retires or moves on, who's stepping in?

[00:20:07] Roy Notowitz: That's a really great insight. So just building off of what Tami said around compensation packages, how are they evolving?

[00:20:14] Lena Knofler: Tami just touched on equity, which I think is always important for executives. When I think about it though, in our line of work, I split VP and C level and then director level. There's this tension of one, Covid created high expectations in compensation where people were moving for a dramatic shift up in compensation, and candidates tend to not lower expectations once they hit a number, but we're also seeing a tension of tighter purse strings in a company and not being able to maybe afford now the level of talent that they need. And so we're after this quote unquote generalist that we've talked about where we're looking for more in one person, which requires more compensation, and candidates now are wanting more comp. So I think that there's a tension of how do we afford the level of talent that we need?

[00:21:13] Lena Knofler: Equity certainly is one way, but we also see candidates wanting stability too. So equity doesn't always offer stability. Equity is super meaningful or super meaningless in a lot of different organizations. And so I think people are starting to shift, I think more on the director, maybe VP level into what does my base comp look like? What does my LTI look like? What does my cash comp look like? So that I can mitigate any potential risk in not obtaining that equity in the future.

[00:21:45] Roy Notowitz: That's great.

[00:21:46] Tami Bumiller: I also think companies are starting to get a little creative around some of the benefits they offer. I've had clients offer housing subsidies. We've had clients offer experiential budgets. So if I'm in the running business and I want my people to really understand, do I fund a marathon? Do I fund training events? Do I fund more trade shows?

[00:22:07] Sara Spirko: And with that too, you look at all of the ancillary benefits, like what Tami was talking about, like PTO is a big deal for a lot of people. They want more than like the standard vacation package, and we are seeing clients that are doing summer Fridays year round, or they're doing unlimited PTO. And those are the kind of perks that I think really can sell a deal. Like let's say you are cash strapped and you can't offer someone, you know the extra 10k that they're looking for, but then get creative with some of these other things.

[00:22:35] Lena Knofler: Roy, what were you talking about? The committed commuter?

[00:22:38] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:22:38] Lena Knofler: Where somebody's traveling back and forth and they're maybe there two weeks out of the month or one week out of the month. I think that creates some nice stability in being able to not have to relo three kids.

[00:22:50] Roy Notowitz: Right. Yeah. And I think what we're seeing there is like, usually it's within a three hour drive or some sort of regional proximity or quick flight.

[00:22:58] Tami Bumiller: Well, and I think that's especially important when we have clients because of the outdoor industry that we work in that are in very tricky places to recruit to Idaho, Montana. Some places in Texas, we've had some Pennsylvania companies that have been really tricky, and one of the things that I've made recommendations to and my clients have actually thought about is they know it's hard to recruit where they are, but it's also a fact of the business. So do we buy a house and do we have a place for executives to come rather than paying hotel fees every time and make it a little more comfortable for that committed commuter? Do we rent a house? I mean, there are so many ways to be creative and save money around those new costs that are associated with having the best talent.

[00:23:44] Tami Bumiller: And to be honest, anytime as recruiters we have a remote role, we get so excited because that means we can go find the absolute best person for the job bar none. Has nothing to do with where they live. And at the same time, we respect the need for people going back to the office and leaders wanting to have their leaders around, but getting creative around how you make that commuting work is going to be part of our future. It's not going to stop, so figure it out.

[00:24:11] Roy Notowitz: So we talked about hybrid, remote, or in-office. What are some of the things that you're seeing out there in terms of how companies are thinking about or optimizing the hybrid and remote leaders on teams? Is there anything else you can add?

[00:24:25] Sara Spirko: I'm seeing when clients are open to remote work, we're filling roles faster with better qualified candidates. When clients are asking for someone to relocate, especially to either remote places or high expense places like San Francisco or Los Angeles, the search does drag on because we have to weed through that many more people that are already there or even open to relocation there. So this whole thing of, "let's hire remote and have people in the office one week a month." I feel like that's kind of where people are, are leading to, and if companies are open to that, I think they're going to see that they're going to get such a better talent pool to pull from.

[00:25:02] Roy Notowitz: If interest rates were to continue to come down, do you feel like people would be more open to relocating if they have a mortgage or something that might be a factor?

[00:25:11] Tami Bumiller: Maybe, but I actually feel like it's more about the family dynamic and it's about the community that's around my family. I can't move to place X because my family is here and my in-laws help with my kids and my kids have a sport community. There are so many factors that come into play, but most of it to me right now is about the family and community and not wanting to disrupt. And often the partner of the person we're trying to interview, wife, spouse, partner has a much larger voice in that today than in pre Covid days. And then the other thing I would say is this is a complicated topic and CEOs and leadership teams and candidates are coming from different places all the time on this topic, and it's not going to go away. So again, it's one where I feel like we need to keep having conversations about how to solve for it as opposed to bury it.

[00:26:04] Sara Spirko: Well, and one thing people need to think about too is through Covid, people move to where they wanted to live because they could. And so now you have all these people who've moved to where they want to live. They're not going to leave.

[00:26:14] Roy Notowitz: Right.

[00:26:15] Sara Spirko: So that's just a whole other dynamic that I think companies and PE firms or whoever's making the decision on coming back into office need to consider that if people moved during Covid, they're probably not going to move again.

[00:26:27] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. They found where they want to be.

[00:26:27] Sara Spirko: They found where they wanted to be.

[00:26:28] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. So what advice or guidance do you have for executive level leaders who are considering making a move in 2025? The candidates are the leaders who might be calling us and saying, "Hey, I am open to an opportunity."

[00:26:42] Lena Knofler: Patience and resilience in the market. I guess it's more of a reassurance that you'll find the right thing. It just may take a little bit of time. I've taken a lot of calls recently, just networking, and a lot of people are like, "am I the only one that's experiencing this slowdown?" And you are not alone in that. So I would just say, keep your head down, create as many networks as you can. Reach out to people. If you're feeling unsteady, you're still employed, but you're feeling unsteady about your organization, start reaching out proactively. Searches are taking, we hope, 90 days, but they can take, you know, 120 days plus. So just get your name out there as quickly as you can. Proactively make relationships with the right people. Reach out to people like us too, who can just keep you in mind as you move forward.

[00:27:31] Sara Spirko: Be upfront with us on your comp and location requirements. We can't really play that game anymore. If you're like, "yeah, maybe I'll think about relocating," and then they give you the offer and you're like, "I'm not going to relocate." That's happening a lot.

[00:27:42] Roy Notowitz: Right.

[00:27:42] Sara Spirko: And companies, I feel like, just don't have a lot of patience for that. So I would say candidates just be upfront. It's just a good way to start...

[00:27:49] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:27:49] Sara Spirko: ...a relationship with a potential new employer to begin with.

[00:27:52] Tami Bumiller: Yeah, and I think gathering insights from every executive recruiter you know is important because we all have different experiences. We all have different client bases. We all work with different geographies, and each of us is going to have a different point of view to help inform what it is that you think you want to do and where you want to go. And keeping active relationships with executive recruiters is very helpful because when you've reached that level where you're not going out to Indeed to find a job, your outreach is going to come from people like us. So making friends with us is important.

[00:28:24] Tami Bumiller: And then the second thing is, especially as we're still not fully back in the office, not fully back in the market. Just the networking conversations with your peers is important, and it's also the way that you stay top of mind with other people in the marketplace that may be like, "wow, I had a conversation with Tami and I now have a role, and she might be a great fill for that." So don't underestimate the power of your network and you should be in constant contact with your network, sharing war stories and sharing problems or sharing successes, and those conversations will pay you back.

[00:29:01] Lena Knofler: I will say making sure when you're reaching out to a recruiter that they're the right recruiter in the right industry. I think we've been getting a lot of cold reach outs or email blasts that seemingly go out to thousands of other recruiters with really long resumes. I think tightening up your story, making sure you're reaching out to the right people in your right industry where you know that. It'll make an impact.

[00:29:25] Roy Notowitz: I think that goes for just job strategy in general. What I'm hearing is that the consumer segment will increase five to 6% next year in terms of growth, which is better than what we've been seeing. So I'm optimistic about 2025. So as you envision your future and the future of the firm, what are you most excited about as it relates to the innovation and evolution of our work?

[00:29:51] Tami Bumiller: You know, the deeper I get into this job, the more fun I have developing my network and making friends of the firm. I think it's really inspiring to talk with people about their experiences and building relationships that are going to serve you in different ways. One of my favorite things is when I place a candidate and then that candidate becomes a client, it's a blast to work with a candidate on the other side because you already know them a little bit, you understand how they think, and hiring for them feels like this extra act of service that you can provide in your sort of professional friendship. That's really cool.

[00:30:23] Tami Bumiller: And then for me, again, I really enjoy the learning process that comes with learning a new client, a new business, a new CEO, keeps my brain sharp. It makes me think differently. It helps me remove biases that I might have in my own personal style. And then lastly, evolving our systems and our technology to make our work more efficient for our candidates and clients, although I sometimes fight it is really exciting.

[00:30:48] Lena Knofler: One of the things in 2024 I did more was see people in person. I actually just met with a candidate I've been keeping in contact with for a couple of years. It's just been really rewarding to cultivate the relationships and now we're actually seeing people in person and making that more personal connection. I'm hoping we can do that more in 2025.

[00:31:06] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate all the great work that you and the rest of the team here do every day. This team's been together for a while, so it's just really been fun to see the firm evolve under your leadership and the amount of repeat clients and things that we have. It's fantastic and thank you so much for being awesome.

[00:31:28] Tami Bumiller: Thank you, Roy.

[00:31:29] Lena Knofler: Anytime.

[00:31:30] Sara Spirko: That's what we're here for.

[00:31:34] Roy Notowitz: Thanks for tuning in to How I Hire. Visit HowIHire.com for more details about the show. You can follow Sara, Tami, and Lena on LinkedIn for more of their expertise and content. How I Hire is created by Noto Group Executive Search. To find out more about us, visit NotoGroup.Com. You can also sign up for our monthly job alert newsletter there and find additional job search strategy resources and content on hiring.

[00:32:01] Roy Notowitz: This podcast was produced by Anna McClain. To learn more about her and her team's work, visit AOMcClain.com.