Interview Coaching and Tips with Kate Sargent

[00:00:00] Roy Notowitz: Hello and welcome to How I Hire, the podcast that taps directly into the best executive hiring advice and insights. I'm Roy Notowitz, founder and CEO of Noto Group. You can learn more about us notogroup.com. As a go-to firm for purpose-driven companies, we've been lucky to work with some of the world's most inspiring leaders as they've tackled the challenge of building high performance leadership teams. Now I'm sitting down with some of these very people to spark a conversation about how to achieve success in hiring and create purposeful leadership for the next generation of companies. Today, I'm back with career coach Kate Sargent to discuss interviewing: how candidates can prepare, communicate impactful stories, navigate difficult questions, and nail virtual and in-person conversations. Be sure to check out the first part of our conversation where we did a deep dive into fostering relationships with recruiters. Let's get right into it. Kate, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast. Looking forward to doing a deep dive into more topics related to interviewing.

[00:01:13] Kate Sargent: I am super excited. Interviewing is one of the reasons I got into recruiting because I loved it so much. And two, it's the most exciting session that I run with my coaching clients.

[00:01:23] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. I've done, I don't know, thousands and thousands of interviews. I can't even probably count.

[00:01:28] Kate Sargent: I mean, isn't it crazy to think about how many hours you've probably spent in an interview? Or, I was trying to figure out how many people in life I've probably talked to over the last 20 plus years. It's an insane number.

[00:01:39] Roy Notowitz: So this is a very interesting topic, and maybe we should start with how someone should prepare for a job interview. Do you have any thoughts about that?

[00:01:50] Kate Sargent: Oh, so many thoughts, Roy. So many thoughts. Okay, so preparing for a job interview is like preparing for any sort of research paper or anything that you need a lot of facts and a lot of information on. And, I would say, the tools at your disposal are company websites, people that work in the company, third party articles. There's a ton of information out there to get yourself armed from a research perspective. That's the first place to start because, when you walk into a conversation really confident about who you're talking to, what you're talking about, the company that you're looking to work for, really well versed on the job description and the competencies involved, it just gives you a level of confidence, polish, all of those pieces that are really important to walk into a job interview with. Talking to people in the company, if you are at all able to do that, and being able to have real conversations about the values and the spaces that you are going to be working in -- hugely beneficial to getting prepared. .

[00:02:49] Roy Notowitz: And this actually is something you could do when you're starting to even write your resume. It's just to really think of your top three to four superpowers or competencies. What are your true capabilities? And asking your friends or coworkers, getting some sort of feedback on that, and then thinking about, "Okay, these are my strengths." Let's call them three to five strengths. What are some stories or examples that really highlight that? Maybe pick two stories or examples out of your database of however many years you've worked, which sometimes can be a bit of a blur, right? But I think doing that upfront work, (a) it gives you bullet points for your resume, and (b) when you are asked questions in an interview situation, you are more readily able to access those stories and examples, and be more present, and be able to elaborate on those in a way that's in context of the question that was asked. So, really knowing your strengths and weaknesses and having those stories and examples are really important.

[00:03:47] Kate Sargent: The hardest interview question in my mind -- I think a lot of people have different hard interview questions -- but, for every person, is to tell me about your background. Usually the first question that you're answering in any conversation, and it is the one that has the biggest room for error and the most likelihood that someone's going to zone out, frankly. Practicing that question, and being able to answer that question, getting a really nice package story that goes from beginning to end, thesis, supports, and conclusion, and being able to, like, really have that conversation within a two or three minute window is going to be tremendous to you. Regardless of what kind of interview or who you're talking to, being able to nail down your narrative is going to be number one priority. I always tell people to have a really long list of all the projects that they've worked on with a list of competencies underneath each of them because it's really less about the project and more about what you're highlighting.

[00:04:45] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. And, in addition to that one question around, "Tell me about yourself," there's other questions, right, that you could even Google "Top 10" or "Top 25" interview questions. It's almost like preparing for giving a presentation or something because inevitably when you leave an interview you're always like, "Oh, I wish I had talked about this," or, "I wish I had said that," or-- and so, being able to practice, and visualize yourself in that interview situation, and being able to bullet point how you would respond to those types of questions is just a mental preparation. It's like putting the donut on the bat before you hit the ball. It's a warmup, and I think, oftentimes, people who don't interview a lot, just forget that little tiny step of preparation.

[00:05:25] Kate Sargent: So there's a couple of questions that I think are good to prepare in advance. One, "Tell me about a difficult project that you had to get across the finish line." Be prepared to talk about a difficult person or a difficult situation you've had with either, you know, a coworker or somebody who's been a direct report. Questions about decision making you might want to prep and have ready. "What are you going to do in your first 90 days?" This can be framed in a lot of different ways, or, "How would you build a strategy for our company? How would you begin to build a strategy for our next three years of growth?" People miss on that question so often, even at the executive level. People instantly panic and go into tactics, when, really, what you want to do is give a little bit of philosophy, then go into tactics, and then make sure you've created a clear conclusion for how you would do this for another organization. Because, ultimately, you don't have a ton of information, so you have to figure out how to use your experience to explain what you're going to do with their company. Talking about pivots: if you've made any pivots in your career, if there's any weaknesses in your background that people might point out. Having an answer to that first. "How are you going to pivot into a new industry? What is this career break? Why did you decide to go the direction of technical versus project management?" All of those type of questions that you could point out for yourself. They call it opposition research, right? When you're doing it in the political field where you, like, do the research on yourself to figure out all the things that you might fail at, all the things where you might have weaknesses. I would say, you want to do that for yourself in advance so that you're not caught off guard in a conversation.

[00:07:03] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. You head them off at the pass.

[00:07:04] Kate Sargent: Exactly. .

[00:07:06] Roy Notowitz: So just being aware of, "Oh, this is probably something they're going to want to dig into, or that they might have a concern over."

[00:07:13] Kate Sargent: Exactly.

[00:07:14] Roy Notowitz: That's brilliant. And what about other stuff around leadership?

[00:07:17] Kate Sargent: I mean, I think there's some great leadership questions out there. You know, "How are you as a leader? How would your team describe working with you? What are some of the words that people would use to describe the work that you're doing? Or, how have you led in a difficult situation? How have you shown leadership and conviction when speaking up to executives or having an opinion that isn't in line with other people?" And, if you fail, you can sound like you're a bad leader. You can sound like you're not trustworthy, like you don't know how to put together a cohesive strategy. It's not about whether or not you were successful in the thing that you're talking about, it's how you talk about it.

[00:07:56] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Leadership is a term that's used pretty loosely, right? And so, what I'm listening for when I'm asking about leadership are things like, how do they understand the capabilities of their team, and the strengths and weaknesses, and help people either develop on those strengths or work on weaknesses to get them to the next level? And so, sometimes, the generic responses to leadership questions really make me question whether or not they're a student of leadership. I want to hear what they're working on as a leader, and how they're developing, and how they think about their team, and how their values come together.

[00:08:32] Kate Sargent: There's nothing worse in a behavioral interview than somebody going broad and explaining, like, how they would do something, versus how they have or are going to do something.

[00:08:43] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:08:44] Kate Sargent: Behavioral interviewing is about, "Show me a time when." The worst situations are when you ask somebody, "Tell me about a time when you showed incredible leadership," and someone says, "Well, as a leader, I do all of these great things, and I support my team, and I believe in this," and it's like, "Okay, cool, but the question was: show me a time that you did that," because demonstrating how you've actually done that leadership is really what people are wanting to understand and see, not that you understand the concept of leadership, or that you've read about leadership, and understand these are the things you should be saying about leadership. Show me how you actually did behave and perform as a leader to demonstrate those competencies. What I want to make sure that people are getting across is something about people, something about the process, something about decision making, and something about learnings. You really can get a cohesive answer, regardless of what the question is.

[00:09:39] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Understanding the scope and scale of the organization and the opportunity that you're speaking to from the standpoint of: how strategic do you want to be in answering that question? Or how high level do you stay in answering that question, versus how much you get into the details? You don't want to go too far into either direction, in most cases, but you have to just keep in mind the right balance.

[00:10:04] Kate Sargent: I love that you mentioned that because that's a huge piece of whatever role you're applying for and really understanding the leveling of the role that you're in. You know, you can go high level first, check in with the recruiter or check in with the hiring manager, whoever's interviewing you, and say, "I can go deeper on the details of any portion of that project, if you'd like me to, but wanted to give you a high level overview first." That does two things: one, it shows that you're strategic and you can understand the high level. Two, it shows that you understand the cadence of an interview process in that you need to keep things short. And three, it shows respect for the recruiter or the hiring manager to say, "I'd love to dig into whatever's important to you, and I'm happy to go deeper, and a level deeper, into those tactics."

[00:10:44] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Definitely want to call out: making sure your responses are long enough to provide a sufficient response, but not so long that you lose interest. You want the interviewer to ask as many questions as they can get in because, the more they can learn about you in that conversation, the better.

[00:11:06] Kate Sargent: If they've asked you a relatively complex question, and maybe you feel like you're going on a little bit too long, you can also check in and be like, "Is that the type of information that you're interested in? Is this the direction that you're looking for here?" But I'm a big believer in the check-in. Check in with your recruiter, check in with your hiring manager, and see if you're headed in the right direction. Read the cues.

[00:11:25] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Pay attention.

[00:11:27] Kate Sargent: In terms of body language, I think, virtual interviewing, versus in person, there's a little bit of difference in what that body language looks like, but, I would say, there's a kind of universal, don't cross your arms. Don't look at your notes when somebody is trying to explain a question to you or explain about the company. You have to be engaged as a listener as much as you do as a talker when you're an interviewer, as well. Smiling, nodding, showing interest, and making sure that you have a sort of overarching positive air about you when you're in the middle of this conversation and truly engaged.

[00:12:03] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. This is a great opportunity to build a relationship, regardless of the outcome, and it's somebody who's interested in learning more about you, so it should be an enjoyable experience. And part of it is that you're going to, hopefully, be able to learn more about them, too. So, just really being open, and present, and positive will come across in your demeanor on a video call, as well as, obviously, in person.

[00:12:29] Kate Sargent: People throw away that first two minutes of an interview, but that's a huge opportunity for you to do a lot of research, almost, within that first couple of minutes. What's the energy in the room? There's a lot of cues that you can read from the other person's body language. Come up with whatever that topic is that shows that you're casual, comfortable, nice. Regardless of whether you are on the inside panicking, try to appear as though you're casual and friendly on the outside.

[00:12:57] Roy Notowitz: In my opinion, there's generally two types of interviewers. Ones that are really prepared, have structured questions, who want to get through their list of questions, and are listening, and they're not distracted. They have the time and focus. Others, maybe they're coming in hot, right? They haven't really had time to look at more than your resume, and they may want to talk more about themselves, or about their company, or the opportunity. So, it's incumbent upon the person being interviewed to try to guide the conversation, to help the second type of interviewer really get a sense of their capabilities, as well as listen to the information they're sharing.

[00:13:36] Kate Sargent: That can give you a good sense of the company too, if everybody comes in hot. There's something strategic, though, about being your BFF in an interview, too -- the ones who don't come in prepared and get you into a casual conversation. Sometimes that's really strategic too. So I would say beware. Beware of those very casual conversations actually being more strategic than you think they are. You know, the more comfortable you make somebody in an interview process, the more truth and information you're going to get out of them. So beware of the people who are deceptively casual as well.

[00:14:11] Roy Notowitz: Yeah, so any other things to do in preparation before the virtual interview?

[00:14:16] Kate Sargent: You know, being able to see yourself on camera, practicing a little bit in a mirror, as uncomfortable as that may be, is really important. But also, for troubleshooting, when there is a moment of panic, I like to have a backup option, like an iPhone or an iPad so that, like, if my computer crashes or something goes wrong, particularly a phone or something that has, like, a phone line, so that you can pop onto it if you need to right in the moment, rather than panicking.

[00:14:43] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. And give yourself at least five to 10 minutes early to get on there and just troubleshoot if there's any issues.

[00:14:49] Kate Sargent: Yeah, a hundred percent.

[00:14:51] Roy Notowitz: Any guidance on background or having a virtual image? Is there any preference?

[00:14:55] Kate Sargent: I like the blur, unless you have a really beautiful background. I think it's distracting, too. So, definitely having a very simple, basic, but well put together background, I think, is important. And if you don't, and you're not able to do that, because there's a lot of privilege in that, for sure, being able to have something nice behind you, blur works great.

[00:15:15] Roy Notowitz: Absolutely. What about fashion or attire?

[00:15:19] Kate Sargent: I keep telling everyone I'm living in my Steve Jobs black turtleneck era right now, where I wear it for pretty much everything because it's so simple, and I don't have to think about it. I would say, have a go-to outfit like that. Something that's simple, basic, you know, it always looks good on you. It shows up well on camera. Know your audience though. I always joke with everyone that I showed up to my North Face interview in tights and heels and was horrified when the people who came to my interview had just freshly showered and were wearing tennis shoes. Know your audience and who you're talking to. Always ask your recruiter, or whoever's setting up your interview, what the right dress code is or what level of dress code. But, for the most part, you can't go wrong with a business casual look in a simple, basic color. A nice black sweater or a nice button down are always going to win.

[00:16:06] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Okay, so now we're on the interview. We talked a little bit about preparing for questions, and what about if you get thrown a curveball, or a difficult or unexpected question? What do you do with that?

[00:16:20] Kate Sargent: Try not to panic. Buy yourself a little bit of time. Have a sip of water. It gives you an extra beat, an extra second. Tell somebody that it's a good question. I'm a big believer in naming what's happening and just being able to say, "Oh, good question. Let me think about that for a second." Almost every interviewer out there is fine with you taking 10 seconds to formulate a good answer. Breathe a little bit because, otherwise, you're going to get tripped up on your words. Always think about what the question's really asking. So, if this is a difficult question or an unexpected question, what is it they're actually wanting to know here? If you haven't prepared for it, it's also always okay to say, "You know, I hadn't really thought about that question. Let me think about it right now." If you bomb -- let's say you black out, you're sweating, it's miserable, like, you just didn't answer it well -- you can always respond back at the end of the conversation, too, and be like, "Look, I feel like I didn't really fully answer that question well," and kind of revisit it if you want to reformulate your answer. Or, in an email afterwards.

[00:17:23] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. How should you communicate around weaknesses or limited experience? We talked a little bit about heading them off at the pass, in terms of doing some prep, thinking about how they might shoot holes in your resume, and being prepared to sort of cover those talking points.

[00:17:40] Kate Sargent: Yeah, so, there's a lot of different pieces there. The best thing you can do is try to address that in your summary, the sort of "tell me about yourself," your background. I think being able to frame and own that story yourself-- you know, like, "Hey, I don't have a lot of tech in my background, but here's some of the places where I've infused tech into my background," right? I think it's smart for you to find adjacencies, always. What is something that's adjacent to the experience that they're asking for -- or something that you have a weakness in -- that you can find a strength that's close to it, similar to, it overcomes it, is part of your plan for how to fix it, that you can bring up throughout conversations without being directly asked about it? Now, if you're asked directly about a weakness, or a gap, or a lack of a skill, competencies are your best friend here. Talking about your transferable skills and competencies and being able to speak in broader terms about how your work translates to that is going to be really beneficial. But, I think, there's a language there that you can speak that will help you overcome if you just very clearly don't have something, being able to speak to the competencies around whatever that skill is.

[00:18:55] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. So, let's talk about what not to do in an interview, like inappropriate stories about your former coworkers or boss, or speaking negatively about your work environment or another person.

[00:19:09] Kate Sargent: Yeah. In the interview sessions I do with my clients, this is something that we work really clearly on is, like, tone and how you speak about your previous companies. There's a way that you can convey that something maybe wasn't the best fit without directly saying it. And I think the nuance there is really important. Lying about what you have listed as accomplishments. I will add to this, not sounding like the AI that wrote your resume. We know what that sounds like.

[00:19:37] Roy Notowitz: You know, oftentimes, especially in bigger companies, we might be talking to people who have been your coworkers. So being really clear about what your role was and not presenting yourself as something that you're not, or accomplishment that was more of a team effort versus your individual contribution.

[00:19:54] Kate Sargent: Yeah. I talk about the "I" and the "we" a lot, too, when you're answering your questions. Ultimately, what people want to know in an interview is: what did you do? And being able to not be so humble that everything you talk about is a "we," and it sounds like you didn't do anything or there wasn't anything unique about the work you did. And vice versa on the other side, acting like you solved the whole world's problems within your company without anybody else helping you. Not listening to the question is another thing that you don't want to do in the interview, like, just moving off quickly and answering something wrong.

[00:20:23] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Or being vague.

[00:20:25] Kate Sargent: Yes. Being vague is one of my biggest frustrations personally. There's so many people out there interviewing right now, and you need to be memorable. Being memorable is important. And, if you're out there being vague, one, it removes trust for me as an interviewer because I'm like, "Okay, well now I got to fill in the blanks myself, and now I'm making assumptions about you and your capabilities," and they're usually not going to be good assumptions if you're being vague .

[00:20:54] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. And this sort of leads me to the next topic, and that is not having good questions prepared.

[00:21:00] Kate Sargent: I think the questions that you ask are almost more important, in some ways, than how you're answering, because those questions are going to give you insight into what they're looking for. This is why you need to understand the cadence of an interview too, because you want to make sure that there's time at the end for you to ask any questions. I like there to be a "people love to talk about themselves" question, where it's, like, ask about why somebody is in the company. What do they love about the company? How does the culture feel? What keeps them there? If they've been there a long time, what brought them there? If they've been there a short time. And then I like a business question. So something about the growth path for the company. How does this department fit into the overarching goal of the company? What are the expectations for the one year, two year, three year plan for this role? And there's a ton of different ways to do that, but a business question. So a people question, a business question, and then, a lot of times, the third question to me is, like, a free-for-all. It's like choosing your own adventure. Something that was mentioned in the conversation to show that you were listening to it, to dig a little bit deeper into it, and get more insight into something that was brought up through the interviewer's questions.

[00:22:08] Roy Notowitz: Right. And sometimes interviews are conversational, where you might be asking questions throughout the interview, and, other times, they just leave, usually not enough, time at the end. So you have to not have too many questions, but have really good ones, and, like you said, create some that are relevant to what you've been listening to or hearing in the interview.

[00:22:27] Roy Notowitz: So how does one wrap up an interview, and how do you show genuine interest in a company and the role without being too desperate sounding?

[00:22:35] Kate Sargent: I always want to hear that, "I'm really excited about this role. I'm very interested and would love to understand what the next steps are." Now, where this goes wrong is if you're, like, very effusive about something, like, "Oh, I think I'm the perfect fit for this role. I think I would be great, and I can't wait for the next interview, and when can I talk to the next person?" That's aggressive. But, I think, framing it like, "I'm really excited about this role. Let me know if there's any additional information I can provide or any other pieces we didn't get to in this conversation to help you make a decision." A little, quick why you're interested, and then close it off. And then finish the conversation, appreciate their time. If it was a good conversation, call it out. Praise your recruiter. If it felt like a good, comfortable conversation, give some feedback. We love to hear that. And then get out of there. Don't let it linger. The timeline question to me is only a question that I would ask at the very end of the conversation if the recruiter has not given me that information. Because, for me, I feel like that's my job as a recruiter, and I feel like you're rushing me into it if you ask me that before I say it. It's almost like jumping the gun.

[00:23:48] Roy Notowitz: But what if, for example, you have other interviews and process--

[00:23:51] Kate Sargent: Right.

[00:23:52] Roy Notowitz: --and maybe they're at different stages. And maybe this is the opportunity that you're most interested in, but you also have these other ones that might be a little bit further ahead, and might potentially pull you out of this process, or not allow you to have the opportunity to choose.

[00:24:07] Kate Sargent: Two years ago, I would've said absolutely. I would've said, "Absolutely tell people where you are in your process." Right now, I'm a little bit more in the camp of don't volunteer information unless you have to, in a lot of situations, because there is so much noise out there in the candidate space that I feel like you want to keep your cards a little bit close to your vest right now.

[00:24:30] Kate Sargent:

[00:24:30] Roy Notowitz: How should you follow up after an interview? What's the protocol?

[00:24:33] Kate Sargent: I personally like it by the end of the day, like, you finished your day, you had some time to think about it, and you put something really cohesive and good together, really, like, a nice thank you note. But, no matter what, you need to have a thank you note within 24 hours. And if it's past 24 hours, say something about it. "Oh, I meant to send this out to you sooner. My apologies for this being late," so again, recognizing what the cadence of interviewing looks like and showing that you're savvy in that space. I would definitely want something in there that feels personal, that feels like you were paying attention and feels like you actually understood what we were talking about. And then, again, if you've bungled a question, or you feel like you didn't answer something, or you didn't get a chance to share something, a very brief, one sentence situation on that could be appropriate. And then, an appreciation for the person who interviewed you and your desire to move forward to next steps. No more than six or seven lines in here, unless there was a tremendous connection that you had with this recruiter, and you want to tell them your life story, or if there's some sort of reason for you to expand upon something. But, for the most part, keep it short. The next follow up is going to very much depend on how that person responds. Now, let's assume you haven't heard from anyone post thank you note, and you're waiting. I used to say within seven days for people to reach back out, or, like, five business days, seven days. I'm saying more like 10 now, just because the recruiting processes seem to be taking significantly longer. Recruiters seem to be way more underwater than they were previously, so I'm generally telling people to wait till a Friday. Whatever the second Friday is. Let's say you had an interview on Tuesday, not that Friday, but the Friday after is when you should check up again if you haven't heard back from anyone. And, again, all of that depends on how they respond to your thank you note. And if they asked you for a bunch of availability right away, and then they didn't get back to you, obviously you're going to want to respond faster.

[00:26:31] Roy Notowitz: And, if you're not getting a response or an interest in scheduling next interviews, is there anything else you should do, or could do, or do you just assume it's probably not going to move forward?

[00:26:42] Kate Sargent: I would say you got to read the room on this one, right? Like, how was your interview? Did it feel like it was a strong interview, and now you're really confused as to why they're not getting back to you? Yeah. I would say give it another shot. Another sign of appreciation for the company, the conversation you had, the people that you've met. No pressure though. This does not need to be a pressure situation where it's like, "Hey, I haven't heard anything from you." I certainly don't like that response. It feels very pushy in an intense way.

[00:27:09] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:27:10] Kate Sargent: One thing for, like, your last ditch effort, let's call it, in the case of somebody told you you didn't get a job, or that they're moving forward to look at other candidates, or they're closing the role down, or you just haven't heard back from anybody, I've also seen it work with a lot of clients where they go back and say, "Hey, I'm open to any consulting work you might be needing, or if you need some contract work in the meantime while you look for the right person for this role, I'm happy to take a short term or micro engagement for the next couple of months and help you get there. Try before you buy, like, if you're not sure about my candidacy, would love to take a short term engagement and prove the kind of work that I've done." Obviously, there's better framing for, like, how you say that, but I would say you always have one more try. For those people who are taking feedback and being told that they're not the final candidate or that they're going to be continuing to look for other candidates, go one more time, and see if you can get in there for a little bit and prove yourself.

[00:28:08] Roy Notowitz: And I also would recommend a 90 day. If they close it out with you, and you know that they're not moving forward, but, you know, maybe two to three months out, you loop back and just saying, "I hope you were able to fill that role," in case there's other opportunities in the future. Sometimes what happens is maybe a job gets put on hold, maybe they try to recruit somebody and then it doesn't work out and they need to revisit. But I would say keep the pedal to the metal, always. Well, this has been super useful. Thank you so much for taking time.

[00:28:40] Kate Sargent: Thank you.

[00:28:45] Roy Notowitz: Thanks for tuning in to How I Hire. Visit howihire.com for more conversations about hiring and job search strategy. Kate will be back again next week for the third and final part of our job search series on how to negotiate entries and exits. How I Hire is created by Noto Group. To find out more about us, visit notogroup.com. You can also sign up for our monthly email job alert newsletter there and find additional job search strategy resources, as well as content on hiring. This podcast was produced by Anna McClain. To learn more about her and her team's work, visit aomcclain.com.

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